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30.01.2023 South Quay Consultation - Comments and Responses

Please note that that the supplied schedule is the full, unabridged list of public responses received and are taken directly from handwritten cards and therefore allowance should be made for unintentional misinterpretions of handwriting.

Please also note that some comments have been provided in respect of Phase 1, which has already been through statutory and non-statutory consultation processes and as such some comments in relation to Phase 1 are superseded by Planning and Design processes which have already taken place.

Comments

1. I would prefer to see the top 2 floors as useful community spaces not a flat in the heart of town. We should be regenerating and supporting footfall.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 8, 15. 19

2. The fenestration you noted in these buildings is totally alien and not in keeping with Pembroke.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2

3. "Like the look of this. Use of flexible presentation space - great.

Access (parking) for library will be more difficult than existing. Will need some dedicated spaces for disables library users. "

Phase 1/Phase 2? Phase 1
Response reference: 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Commend the concept of a social care hub - component parts work well. Whilst not benefiting from the funding you are currently accessing (LUF) other locations could be used e.g. Riverside which may provide better access and also bring that building back into use.

Phase 1/Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 17

4. "Really excited and grateful for how far it's come. I like the Social Care element and see how there is much more to this than I heard from others here today - we need to think about everyone and the future of our community spaces and initiatives. My concerns are:

- parking. Working in social care, I know that as much as you promote buses etc. there will be staff that have to park!

- ensuring it's inclusive and perhaps those using services (direct payments etc) can also work @ the venue. Not segregated area, but a free flowing feeling!

- less mention of cafes! What about restaurants as there's nothing to do in evenings! Top Joes & Indian is not enough. Support for cafes to diversify. "

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 3, 7, 12

5. Absolutely NOT my cup of tea. Hub in my opinion will not be in the best place for either client using or Town. The building in Phase 2 overs powers the Royal George.

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 2

6. A direct competition to local businesses i.e. café/tea rooms who have to pay high business taxes?

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Phase 1
Response reference: 1

Social Service needs are a necessity but there are other buildings in Pembroke more suited i.e. Old Hospital, Eastend school - both with easy access and parking alongside. I hold grave doubts as to the success of this development.

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 17, 19

7. "1. Please do not drop the Visitor Centre after a year or so of completion.

2. Wood facing on the front of buildings looks good if it is cleaned and treated each year. However, it quickly goes to look bad after a few years of neglect. - Please be aware of the cost of keeping the outside of the building looking fresh. "

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2

8. I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE AN ART GALLERY! A chance for local people to show their work. For more community engagement! Also links with local schools. (DO WE NEED SUCH TALL RAILINGS? BIT "KEEP OUT"!

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 10

9. A small cinema would be a blessing to the town.

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 9

10. DON'T LIKE THE FAÇADE: TOO MODEN, NOT IN ARCHITECTURAL KEEPING.

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2

11. Not happy about the use of the quay. Riverside & Eastend school are available and more practical. We feel we should be able to use the quay for tourism.

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 19, 20

12. "Overall a good scheme and involving long term services/revenue funding.

Optimistic construction period but I hope you succeed as a solution has been a long time in coming.

Interested to learn of the challenges presented by this group of important but decaying buildings.

Small point. Need to rethink on timber finish element above Henry VII Centre. Better fenestration?"

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2

13. I do not think it is a good idea to put a massive social services centre including social accommodation right next to the Interpretation Centre and right in the middle of our small and struggling tourist town.

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 13, 17, 19, 20

14. "FIRST AND FORMOST - DISABILITY ACCESS IS HORRID! ONLY ONE WAY IN OR OUT! IF FIRE HAPPENS WITHIN ANY AREA, THERE ARE NO WAYS other than the enterence to get out. This will be brought up to DISABILITY ACCESS UK.

Who in Council has ties to The George? How did the LARGER AREA where there are tables come about? AND Why are they there?

PARKING AREA? This is Ludicrous. WALL is NOT STRAIGHT, this will NOT work. AND only for employees?

ANOTHER CAFE? Coffee and a ham and cheese toastie? If it were a specialized MENU (Tudor perhaps?)

SQ FOOTAGE OF LIBRARY - is it larger than library already is? Where will computers be?

Toilets for everyone.

The ""garden area' would be lovely IF turned into Tudor (KNOT) gardens. LEAVE ALL THE METAL fencing and keep people OFF until gardens planted."

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2, 3, 21

15. "The gardens were better served as a tudor garden and not the new idea that you have. The herbs could have been used for the Café. We don't need a new café in this town as we have 13/14 already.

The disabled access needs to be sorted, especially in case of a fire.

The front of the building (all of them) does not need glass. We are a very old town and you are wanting to take that away from us.

More needs to be done about Henry Tudor and Anne Boleyn (Marcess of Pembroke).

Will the library & TIC seperate or together. And where are the computers going."

Phase 1 / Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6

16. NOT VERY GOOD - IN FACT VERY DISAPPOINTING - APART FROM HENRY VII statue and William Marshall it’s a disgrace - not what was promised - the rear of Castle Terrace is not in keeping with the South Quay. Where are the workshops/pop up shops as originally planned? Will this bring any further footfall - I doubt it!!

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2, 10

17. UNFORTUNATELY THIS STRUCTURE IS OUT OF CHARACTER FOR PEMBROKE. VERY BOLD IDEA AND I WISH YOU THE VERY BEST OF LUCK. PLEASE INCORPORATE DISABLED ACCESS TO THE SIDE OF THE DESIGN AS WELL AS STAIRS. WITH THE CAR PARKING FACILITIES PLEASE INCLUDE DISABLE, ELECTRIC CHARGING POINTS FOR CAR'S.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7

18. (Not good atall). To many buildings & the back of South Terrace is not in keeping with Castle or Quay as too the building on the Quay there to nearby. Where to are the disable entrances at. So all I am not happy with most of it. One more thing will there be a place for boating concession etc on the Quay.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2, 3,4,5,6, 24

19. SURGERY FRONTAGE TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACTER.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 1
Response reference: 1

ROOF LEVELS TOO HIGH AT LEAST ONE STOREY IN PLACES 2. SOCIAL SERVICES DO NOT INCREASE FOOTFALL IN THE TIME.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 2, 8, 13

20. Too modern. It's to enhance our castle & Tudor dynasty. Looks like spaceport.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2

21. The social services part of this development looks rather large. It's also taking up a prime waterfront site. The building there looks out of contrast with the castle. No doubt such a large building will have a considerate number of staff. That I would imagine will turn the hole of that front as a bespoke car park for them. In short this looks like an inappropriate and wrong headed development.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 2, 7, 8, 10, 13

22. Can you please move the day centre away from the castle area to a more suitable place where it is easier to park or walk to without getting run over?

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 18

23. Height of buildings against a ancient monument in conservation area they are dominant. The glass fronted building on castle terrace is made to look like a garden shed with the timber which will not age nicely. Why Social Services? Was it because carmarthen did this and it was easy option. Riverside would be lovely for old age bungalows, the grade II Building used for offices old age home for canteen, meeting places, chiropodist etc etc all in same place and leaving bigger properties that are desperately needed. Better left blank for Henry Logo.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 18

24. NOT GOOD other than Henry 7 Centre. This was not what the original plans were for a Social Services Centre - this will not encourage footfall into Pembroke and help ring Shop Tills. Pembroke an ancient town with Castle surely you could have taken this more into consideration. A collection of small shops/workshops would have encourage footfall. Why is it Pembroke is always behind the liked of Tenby/Narberth. The Pond Walks are disgrace and have been for several years. Holiday Makers cannot understand why there is little maintenance.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 18

25. "phase 2 is AWFUL. This is a Tourist area.

1. New building will provide an opportunity to remain close to home ""when the only opportunity is to move out of county to receive education"" - what sort of education - what sort of pupil.

2. DAY CENTRE - I thought PCC were exploring CLOSING day centres and moving groups into the community centres. "

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 18, 23

26. GOOD TO SEE SOMETHING IS HAPPENING WITH THIS AREA. I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE A DISABLED RAMP OR OTHER SOLUTION SO A WHEELCHAIR BOUND PERSON CAN GET FROM THE QUAY TO CASTLE TERRACE WITHOUT A HUGE DETOUR UP MAIN STREET.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 3, 4, 6

27. Worry about Parking. Phase 2 close to road safety coming out of building. I am really excited about the future of Pembroke. We so need change. Thank you.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 7

28. WITH PHASE 2 THE FRONTAGE ONTO THE QUAY IS TOO LARGE. EXTRA LARGE WINDOWS. BOTH THE GEORGE AND THE NEW BUILDING ARE THREE STORIES YET IT TOWERS OVER THE GEORGE. THE LARGE TOILET BLOCK IS BEING REPLACED BY 2 DISABLED TOILETS WHICH IS NOT ENOUGH FOR ANY FUNCTION TAKING PLACE ON THE QUAY. THE SUGGESTED USE OF THE NEW BUILDING WILL NOT BRING ANY EXTRA FOOT TRAFFIC INTO THE TOWN. THOSE THAT ATTEND WILL STAY IN THE BUILDING. WE NEED A BUILDING THAT THE USE OF WILL BRING TOURISTS DOWN TO THE QUAY. THIS PHASE WILL TOTALLY OVERSHADOW THE AREA. THE BUILDING BEHIND THE GEORGE SHOULD NOT BE OVER THE HEIGHT OF THE RIDGELINE EVEN TAKING IN THE SCOPE OF THE HILL.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 2, 5

29. THIS WAS A USABLE AREA IN THE 1990 AND A DISASTER KNOW, IN MY OPINION THE SITE SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED TO GROUND LEVEL AND REARRANGED WITH NEW (Contract Structures) A RAMP TO WORKABLE LEVELS FROM THE PARKING AREA FOR ACCESS AND SENSABLE WORKING AREAS ACC WITH DUMPER AND DIGER ACCESS. OR JUST BILD A NEEDED SMALL MULTY STORY CAR PARK IN ON THE TOP OUT ON THE BOTTOM.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 7

30. Can frontage of library where wood is be left blank for Henry logo otherwise looks like a garden shed. Can there be anchor points in quay for tents to tie onto when there is an event.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 10

31. I believe it is an improvement. Over the years I have watched this area deteriorate hopefully it will bring more tourists and help Pembroke prosper.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.

32. Building obviously essential However facial they should be in keeping with Castle.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2

33. NO NEED for S/Services to be put next to a Tourist Attraction. Plenty of space in The Derelict Building we already have e/g Riverside & Hotel.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 17, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23

34. The style of the building looks out of place and context Building is not correct as it will not bring in much footfall. Needs something to attract visitors Even a banking hub would do that. Need to enhance the history of the town Love to see the boards on the pond hope that stays under the new development Should not be a social services building.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2, 16, 19, 22

35. While it is good that services for people of Pembroke are to be improved is it really a good idea to utilise a prime tourist attraction spot like the castle & South Quay to put in Social Services. Wouldn't it be better to utilise old Social Service building like the old school on the Green to provide these services and develop the Quay in a way that improved the Pembroke Economy. Also, building itself does not suit the character of the Castle area or Quay.

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2, 17, 19, 22

36. "The Gardens and surrounding railings. The representations may only be a basic outline but they look very boring/pristine. How about a medieval or Tudor area to link to the Tudor theme, with medicinal plants grown at the time. Tudor merchants House Tenby have achieved this in a very tiny beer garden and have a good specialist working there. Railing on the front look very austere and no greenery/trees behind. You may be undertaking further landscaping designs/ideas?

Will the display centre include links back to the current history museum in the town hall. Either encouraging people to attend there - or a more detailed display on a particular aspect in the Town Hall Museum.

Will there be Tourist information for the area in the library or a digital information point?"

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 25, 26, 27

37. "This development is out of character with Pembroke which is a conservation area. Pembroke needs a development which will regenerate it. We also have little toilet provision and this does little to help with this. The Quay area should be a vibrant area and I fail to see how this will assist with any generation.

The proposed design is inappropriate and little seems to have been done in this aspect. "

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2, 11

38. "Henry VIIth Centre is only redeeming feature of the design. The buildings surrounding The George are overpowering and too high. The old doctor's surgery should be more in keeping & not set back - look at former HSB Bank in Main St - poor.

The Centre for social services in inappropriate for this area - should be located at Riverside.

This development should brine more footfall into Pembroke which at present is mostly visitors - need to enhance their experience."

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2, 17, 19, 22

39. "The current spatial proposals to the above now being viewable on line, I wish to record my comments:

Objections to Phase 1

1/ Too expensive, too extensive (cafe extension), unsustainable (servicing, energy consumption) 'modern' style unsympathetic to historic setting."

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 1
Response reference: 1

"Objections to phase 2

2/ Over-development, access and parking difficulties;

3/ Unsympathetic to adjoining historic buildings; and

4/ Fails sequential test: there are other more suitable buildings for development, eg. vacant East End School.

Plus the following:

5/ It would appear that the opportunity to rid the South Quay has been missed and which should be instated; and

6/ It would appear that an early requirement for a pedestrian access between Castle Terrace and the Quay and should be reinstated."

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Phase 2
Response reference: 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 17, 19

40. "South Quay Development

I have taken a look at the images on the PCC webpage reference the work being carried out in Pembroke known as South Quay Development.

Although delighted that the derelict buildings are now at last being addressed I can’t help but think that the nature of the frontages of the buildings and the rear of the buildings are not in keeping with what Pembroke is.

Pembroke is a Walled Town (Medieval) that has managed in the main part to keep it’s identify as just that.

The Main Street and adjoining streets, Castle Terrace and Northgate Street are full of beautiful old houses with some very attractive picturesque frontages from various centuries.

So please why does the plans make the new frontages look like they belong in a brand new development on Cardiff Docks. It’s bad enough that we have already in past years had houses knocked down to accommodate what was the old supermarket now a café, which again is not in keeping and new builds (Coop) that are supposedly in line with its surroundings but clearly are not. These are just some of the already bad decisions that have been made in the past, can we at least try and preserve what we have left.

Just two doors up from the Henry Tudor Centre (Total waste of money) is the Castle, the old Yeomanry and the house with beautiful stone steps. The old hotel and Ex Servicemen’s also have although now not looking so good steps and nice frontages, why do you then plan on putting in I can only describe as glass and plastic on the old surgery (which must have some of the original stonework in it as it has not been built up). Is this correct in a conservation area?

The back of the buildings are and have been as businesses plain, but still have some features as fitting for their time.

The gardens if you look at the maps and prints from the past have had a secondary defensive wall in them and surely if you start to dig up for foundations these are going to be adversely affected.

The buildings do not require large modern extensions on them, the vista given by the castle and the exposed wall is going to be spoiled by these additions.

I could go on and on, but please do not let someone (designer) who would like to have their name put on a big project to showcase their work dedicate what should be a wonderful restoration project, into an out of place white elephant.

There is a place for the modern and modern and old can live side by, but Pembroke is not a bustling metropolitan city, and the conservation of it is and should be our first consideration.

I could go on and on. Thank you

Conservation of the Town Walls is an ongoing project, and with exceptions"

Phase 1/ Phase 2? Not Noted.
Response reference: 1, 2

Pembrokeshire County Council and Consultancy response to comments following South Quay redevelopment Public Engagement & Consultation Event held on 30^th January 2023 at Pembroke Town Hall

Design:

1. Many of the comments raised refer to phase 1 of the development, which has been previously consented and the details of which are not included in the phase 2 planning application:

a. Frontage / elevational treatment of Phase 1.

Cafe is in Phase 1
Concern over railings in Phase 1.
Concern over garden fencing design in Phase 1
Glass front and timber in Phase 1.

2. Design Issues raised in relation to phase 2:

a. It is not possible or desirable to demolish listed heritage structures in conservation areas so close to a grade I listed castle.

Fire egress is challenging but a fire engineer has developed a specific fire strategy for the building.
The public realm improvements outside the Royal George Pub is to create a public area, this will not be owned by the Royal George Pub.
In response to comments about the appearance, materiality and style of the development, it is noted that people will always have varying personal tastes and therefore it may be impossible to please everyone. A rigorous approach has been taken in investigating massing, suitability and material choice, which has been documented in the design and access statement:

i. The fenestration has been sensitively matched to the traditional surrounding buildings, this has been further developed since the consultation event and may address some of the comments raised to some extent.

Massing and form are similar to historic image of the Quay, which show buildings of similar scale and form in front of the quay wall. It is noted that the old mill (now demolished) was significantly larger than the proposed development.
The massing of the building has been sensitively developed to avoid overbearing on the listed Royal George Pub and to minimise any impact upon the setting of the castle. This process has been explained in the Design and Access Statement.
In relation to concerns over large elements, the massing has been developed to break down the bulk of the development, using materials façade modulation and roof forms to given the appearance of a group of buildings rather than one large building.
One comment was that the purpose of the building is to “enhance the Tudor dynasty”. This is not the purpose of the building (may be related to phase 1).
We disagree that the building looks like a “spaceport” (either phase 1 or phase 2)
This is a modern building using traditional materials and form, not a mock Tudor / Georgian building.

Access:

3. The new facility is proposed to be accessed from the South Quay Car Park and will provide step free access throughout for wheelchair users. Furthermore the design has been developed to enable wheelchair users to gain accessed to the café Terrace of The Phase 1 development, providing wheelchair access to the café, public library and HTC. Wheelchair access will therefore be made possible from South Quay to Castle Terrace.

4. It is not possible to provide, wheelchair access on Northgate Street - It is too narrow and steep.

5. WC facilities for disabled people are improved in the building and accessible in an area available to the public.

6. Access for disabled is provided and step free / Part M compliant facilities are vastly improved for users.

7. In response to concerns raised over parking:

a. Parking is not limited in Pembroke. A study was commissioned by Pembroke to ascertain capacity in the busiest period (summer) and found that there were spaces available. Pembroke is not a large town and there are alternative parking locations available.

b. Concerns were raised about staff taking all of the parking at south quay, this was addressed a number of times at the consultation event. The majority staff do not drive and arrive by minibus owned and operated by Norman Industries.

c. A multi-story carpark is not needed, nor desirable in this location

d. The parking area changes were discussed with highways at an early stage and are considered appropriate. The amendments to the kerb line at the junction of the car park and Northgate Street are proposed to improve the quality of the public realm, offering opportunities for varying uses and to improve the safety of pedestrians.

e. Accessible spaces will be provided.

f. Electric charging is not proposed as there is sufficient capacity elsewhere.

Use

There were some concerns over the proposed use of the space, where people may have been confused by the proposal, however to confirm:

8. There is no ‘flat’ the space is not residential it is an educational resource for assisted daily living.

9. A cinema is not proposed.

10. The public space may be used flexibly in conjunction with the uses for temporary exhibits.

11. WCs are provided with independent access from the Quay.

12. There are commercial opportunities on the high street for the private sector to provide restaurants.

13. The Hub will provide employment skills for disabled and autistic people.

14. The high street has many shops, close to parking.

15. The top two floors are being used for community provision for elderly and disabled clients during the day and can be used for wider community in the evenings and at weekends. The "Flat" is a learning space where anyone interested in testing digital technology or learning to live independently will be able to come for advice. The "flat" will not be residential and no one will live in the building.

16. There will not be any major catering facilities included in the Phase 2 building - we have only included a small commercial kitchen to provide special food requests and there is no direct access to the public. The expectation is that customers will use local facilities as part of their learning and development.

17. We agree that Riverside should be used for a housing facility to support people with higher needs. There is no residential provision in the building only learning provision.

18. The consultation on day centres in 2019 agreed that in Pembrokeshire there would be 2 social services hubs that would provide a range of services to our customers and to the community - Phase 2 will be the South hub. The consultation also agreed that there would be additional services based in the community - these are the spokes. The Covid pandemic has changed the way that people want to receive services and we will design services to meet this need which includes more community based services. This may result in old and unfit buildings being closed with their services being moved to more appropriate facilities. This is not about closing day services but a reconfiguration of the way we provide services to better meet people's needs today.

19.People using social service facilities have the same rights as other people to access services from central locations. The locality enables the building users to access the town centre which will benefit from year round increased footfall.

20. Phase 1 provides the tourist attraction. Phase 2 will include pop up and gallery spaces to complement this.

21. We have completed a full disability access assessment of the building. There is level access from the front of the building, ramps and lifts to give access to all floors. We have also ensured that access is maintain in the case of emergency by including fire safe lifts that continue to be used in case of fire and by including safe zones in the design.

22. The hub will provide a consistent year round increase in footfall to the town. Customers & their carers and staff will all use the town centre resources either as part of their learning or because they are in town and will pop into shops. The ground floor will be used for pop up and gallery spaces which will encourage people to come into town.

23. The programme of continue learning and development that we will be delivering is aimed at helping people with more complex needs to live more independently, to access their community and potentially get a job. People with complex disability have the same rights as everyone else to continuing learning once they leave school or college however at present in Pembrokeshire the opportunity for this is limited and people often have to go away to special schools to get this learning. The building will not cater for people with the most complex behavioural issues that put the community at risk

24. The scope of the project is defined by the buildings. Exterior activities such as boating concessions do not fall within the remit of the brief.

25. Comments regarding the garden will be taken forward and utilised within the final design brief.

26. Digital Tourist Information provision will be considered within the Library.

27. Town-wide promotional activities will be considered.

ID: 10023, revised 04/05/2023